英文三坐標論壇的一點翻譯

吟嘯徐行

, x2 s: R' M9 f3 x( i. . and of course that the masterball is
calibrated, with the calibration result
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0 O0 w, z) g0 |& U1 C4 DIs it calibrated Golden Pine ?.

) ^* ?8 A' v$ i) n3 A而且當然標準球是校正過的，校準結果已經在軟件中用了。

Ofcourse yes.The master ball has dia of 20mm but i have input its value in the software according to the certificate that is 20.002mm.I think i am right.am i?i am measuring ring gage dia with the probe of length more than 3 inches with ball dia 6 mm.In small ring gages , the difference in dias are less but a i move to bigger gages , the difference goes to 10 microns.why its varying gage to gage of different sizes?
Anotehr thing when i auto calibrated this probe , the software has calculated its dia as 5.661,5.471,5.767,5.787 against 6mm .why the measured dia is so small.i think this thing is introducing error in my readings from this probe?Any suggestions plz.
% D' ^# X  I% _  g: m; _當然。標準球為20毫米，但是根據證書我在軟件中輸入它數值為20.002 毫米。我自認為是對的.對嗎？我用一根長度超過 3 英寸球直徑為6毫米的探針測量環規.在小的環規中，直徑誤差很小.但是一旦我換成一個大點的環規,偏差能達到10個微米.為什么不同環規之間有差異.
/ ?5 [9 r2 ^- i3 T9 f3 S另外，當我自動校準測頭的時候,對于6豪米探針軟件校準直徑值為5.661,5.471,5.767,5.787。為什么測量直徑如此小,我猜是不是從測頭中引入的誤差到測量結果中.那位能給點建議

# [  c6 Z) {! F. O2 v% o7 iAre you sure the ring gages are round?
You can verify by printing out a plot of the roundness then rotating the ring gage and running again. If the shape of the plot rotates with the ring gage
3 ?1 [6 S) x, A7 c# ythen the ring gage is out of round.

If you can get 6 microns with a 3" long probe, you're doing pretty darn good.
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; M# c9 f* v+ M9 S你確定環規是是圓的嗎？
! o. S6 a. G9 t: j, x& w0 w你可以通過打印出一個標準圓然后旋轉環規。如果環規外形超出繪制的圓，那么環規已經不圓了。
如果你能用一個3" 探針僅偏差6個微米 ，你做的已經非常好了


Actually, I may have misunderstood.
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When you say 10 microns, you mean the difference between the actual ring gage diameter and the diameter the cmm measures the ring gage?
! a& z. r1 s5 @: [. N+ G0 `This is basically due to the fact that the probe is calibrated on a 3d sphere and is averaged out based on that. If you are more concerned about 2d
calibration, the best way to go is to measure a calibrated ring gage and manually adjust the diameter of the probe to make the ring gage dia check correctly.
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Assuming that the software you are running allows you to do that. Unless the software will allow you to calibrate based on a 2d measurement, that would be
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easier.

Also, if you do this, you can monitor the roundness readings which can detect problems with the probe system or stylus. Stylus wear, dirt, probe module wear,
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) o7 Y* H% D8 T% D$ ^實際上，我可能已經誤解。
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當你說 10個微米的時候，你的偏差意思是實際的環規直徑和cmm 測量環規直徑？
本質上由于探針值是基于在一個3D球體上被校正并平均得出。如果你更關心2d校準,最好辦法為測量一個標準的環規,手動調整探針的直徑確保環規測量值正確。 如果你運行的軟件
允許你這樣做。 除非軟件將會允許你校正基于2d測量，那樣的話就要比較容易了。
" ^6 c* ^# V2 O6 D同時, 如果你這樣做，你們檢查下影響圓度因為能發現測頭系統或探針:探針磨損,污垢，測頭模塊磨損等等
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my software donot allow to compensate the probr dia manually.wat can i do now?
& E2 L7 `5 O, N8 j, v我的軟件還不允許手動補償探針直徑.我現在怎么辦？

Hi G.P.,

( v5 l/ o$ C, `) W: |) r8 W8 JHow many points are you taking on the ring gauge ?
Are you setting up the main datum as a cylinder through the gauge, or a plane on top of the gauge ?
$ @0 m8 l2 ~5 l+ h' A& F9 LWhat algorithm are you using to calculate the dia ?
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嗨 G.P.，
" t1 a& p) L# j, V# b- M$ O你測量環規打了多少點？
你有沒有建議一個圓柱坐標系通過環規或者在環規表面建議一個基準面
你使用什么運算法則來教轉探針直徑？(指外接圓法,內接圓法,和最小二乘法等等)

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3 G) l! `" G# y0 P! ZGoldenPine. Don't worry about the probe calibrating smaller than its real diameter, that's normal and understandable. What you do need to worry about is the variation of the "calibrated" diameters of your probe stylus which are HUGE. I've just checked the two 6mm probe on my machine and the variations are from 5.987 - 5.991 for 14 probe orientations (swivel length 93mm) and 5.913-5.922 for 17 orientations (swivel length 138mm). I avoid using the 138mm length probe
unless I absolutely have to and it hasn't been cleaned for a while!
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I think you need to get your CMM serviced and calibrated or you are, frankly, wasting your time.

GoldenPine。 不要擔心探針校值小于其真實值，那是正常的和可以理解的。你需要關注的是你的探針" 校正 " 后的直徑的大小。
我剛剛用兩個6毫米探針在我的機器實驗了下:從5.987- 5.991為14校正方向（旋轉半徑 93 毫米）和17方向（旋轉半徑138毫米）5.913-5.922.
我盡量不使用那138毫米探針,除非我唯一適用和它不能被排除
3 }. J2 ~, ]( x: y) A1 M, w我認為你應該聯系CMM服務工程師來校正或者你來做，坦白地，現在你在浪費時間。

吟嘯徐行

未完待續

回國際化:估計老美沒有幾個人認識中文,啥時候幫他們也翻譯下,

finleyfeng

看完了  頂一下

吟嘯徐行

This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add.

: q+ }% h  W( ]# f: GHe started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a
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cmm talk about programming one.
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I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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- p8 U( _  W9 q! @, U+ jMaybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like
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7 f: v1 V+ e, a+ X& L* syou...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so
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* P  `4 A4 Y6 }* t) `; zthat I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works
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for.
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The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so

  x6 b. n4 J. O  b& E; m9 \7 athat they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly

pray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on.
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- \" ~* W; Q/ C; Z這一個人基本上沒有經驗，而你們正在免費通過互聯網完整培訓他，我可能稍微增加點難度。

% Z$ j/ }- q; l% C4 T" B# {6 f. \他從自己校正他的機器的各種非常愚蠢的主意開始，現在我們容易看出他一個甚至不能正確操作cmm的人。
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! R: N0 E- D5 U* }' F* A0 q: C我做出犧牲,閱讀一堆章節并被他開始問各種荒謬最基本的cmm 觀念。

& _# ]2 I6 z3 B" T. Y可能我應該更加接納他剛進來就說:我基本對cmm了解為零,但是我成為你那樣...你能幫助我嗎?我從那里開始?但是我發現自己不停的被問的吃驚.我完全理解,當我得到這個故事必

然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即將發生倒閉
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* B+ \; X' p. c- T! ]" M我看他服務的公司最后的結果是財務破產作為他'程序'的一部分他們計劃調整這部分以便他們在cmm報告中看起來好點.他們把這個給客戶.最多被拒絕或者在使用中完全失敗.當我
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讀他那職位的時候,我真誠的起到他不是做方向盤或者轉向制動器,安全帶....這個列表繼續

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! G4 E9 c8 v! kI (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.

Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.

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/ e' P- S: p6 Z8 B; LNope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
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& f$ ~* N, |) E; ^9 [! H6 dIn fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that

he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE

( f8 z: k/ u9 S9 DTHE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!
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$ x5 k4 u* i; U1 M3 U6 B. R; G1 GAnalogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The
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; s+ h1 j7 U# G( c1 D" v) ?" b$ H0 acar's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?
8 ]3 N' r; H% H我(象你們中很多人一樣）是一個經過專門培訓對質量吹毛求疵的專業人士。
( w/ x7 N7 f+ u" {3 o% Q如果我能找任何的錯誤或的問題任何事，讓我們見到那一個區段已經在他的最后職位中陳述。
不，不能在錯誤中找一些線索。 我將會說，他腦子壞掉了。
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事實上,我在過去懷疑過很長時間這個家伙是不是真的是一個有經驗的cmm怪人,他僅僅是打亂我們的思路,但是我確認他是一個卓越的人.這是不用討論的,他的情況應該被當作一個

8 r- Y5 o% y- A* y優秀的學習案例:為什么鑒定為cmm怪人,就想機器一樣

類似：如果一輛車輛已經被檢查，登記以及許可，它為什么不是最佳狀態？ 為什么那操作員應該被訓練而且得到許可的？ 小車還好，所有的工作都一樣！ 操作員僅僅是湊湊熱鬧

5 A4 b, I; O: y: M; m1 Y，對不對？ 怎么會出錯？
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3 s9 H0 A4 f' w* G
6 j9 W$ E* W5 ?. [5 Vhi,
i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
GoldenPine

嗨，
我認為，你們是從我這郁悶.我真的抱歉。但是還是感激幫助者。
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my machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
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5 e. @+ R1 z+ ?* B9 a& f0 Jat the end?
我的機器測量一個標準環規小了3微米.是不是有選項去手動補償或我不得不在最后把它加入到結果？


Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?
2 S- L! C9 U2 C3 Z# X7 F# c& U$ m3微米是不是小于名義值，或3微米小于環規的校準結果？
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its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
正常。如果已經被標定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 讀數為10.06mm。


10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.

Perhaps you meant 10.006?

7 W) [* X) @1 i* kIs your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the
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stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the
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optimal "attack angle".
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5 l- w# {( x, D! e* N% ROnce you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the

ring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times
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4 K$ t( F5 J! ^5 d* L+ A(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If

it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong.
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If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.

10.06是60個微米。六個微米是.006 。
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可能你認為是10.006?
你的cmm是自動還是手動？ 如果它是手動，我的建議是放棄它同時再買臺真正的cmm 。如果它是自動, 那么確信你有建議一個探針校正程序。 確定在標準球上的測量正確的。 確
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定點是以正確的位置和最佳的法線角度去接觸標準球.

3 x, E/ e& }; ~3 b3 u& _$ f& e5 B2 x一旦你有一個校準測頭的程序,你應該做一些測試.校準探針和檢查環規多次。測量中重新調整環規位置。在測量中你可能想重復調整它但是小心不要影響它的溫度
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2 |6 R" p: ]) m: \" H9 D% Z然后，重復這整個程序多次（包括重復校準探針） 如果在這里你見到的差異超過.003mm(我預計它會）, 那么你看到的這3個微米是噪音。如果它是超過.03mm, 那么那些地方可能
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有錯誤。
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如果它處于中間，同時你想更要的效果.如果可能的，試一個較短的測針。


Agreed Ken,
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I

realise the choice is not always there.
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I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder
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to the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.
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& K' @; M# e: f$ f+ x" t0 k2 wThe other matters to add up are,
0 `  s# E5 y+ \- k' u; j: ~the uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
the algorithm used for the dia result :
room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :
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Good luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere.
9 Y. _. c+ H- D# ]1 v- c同意肯恩，
這個方法最好是用最大的球莖和最短的探針長度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20會也減小效果，但是我認為問題并不在那里。

我總是通過環規的中心設置我的基準面(測量圓柱),雖然這些環規從圓柱到外圓面是非常一致的,單你僅僅是不確
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其他因素加起來是，
+ v  x7 [; u1 V4 i2 E* H5 j9 S8 y  C機器的測量的不確定：
9 Z, N/ W/ E( t環規實際的校準結果（不是被標的值）:
結果圓的運算法則：
7 P3 c5 m$ X6 M7 Y房間環境（臨時濕度） :
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1 X4 D9 v; j$ e3 o9 A& RG.P找到的3微米誤差就在里面,祝你幸運!

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Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right?

0 ]2 |0 o# a' f在直徑測量之前有必要定位環規。我已經某處讀我們需要制造 對準直徑測量.是嗎？

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! l7 y, u4 i( L( a. OIt's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns,
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$ O! P% r8 c( [% ~: {6 {, }" _then use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.

) D- W" X2 f  F$ ^) nThat includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.
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As a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
: ?1 K1 k# w3 W) b% W. g" a# b它只是我個人的意見 G.P. ，如果你想嘗試達到3個微米，

0 s0 M  g1 r- a) g+ T使用所有的方法(盡力而為),在測量任意一個點都要垂直于表面。

- O7 m2 m/ Z, [7 Z那包括在測量直徑之前排校準環規。
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" w) q" V" w& o) b, d8 h9 K稍微有點好奇，環規校準報告說環規尺寸是所少？


I would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage.
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" z3 B* w# M& F4 G我會把它作為一個圓柱來測量。設定我的坐標系為圓柱坐標系同時在環規中逐漸提高測量圓
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( R' U" M; c8 d  u' ~You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!
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What type of machine? Manual or CNC
5 a  M0 Q; e% }What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
! u  e  }2 W  @- E/ u8 {$ ?2 FWhat length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
  ^0 y* I- P' p: }* S! nWhat is the temperature in the room?
% ^" y6 O% `. ^& P! ~8 p9 LWhat diameter is the ring gauge?
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# [" b$ A  r3 g9 t2 RLet's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5
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people breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.

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0 O4 Z/ R* e! A& B$ @. @- p你試圖測量一個直徑只有3微米的偏差？！

哪類機器？手動或自動
  W( G2 s7 A. n3 p" g哪類探頭？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200
- A  d& @! Y, {# R& ^) u探針長度為多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米
! a- K2 X1 T# X. f% |房間中，溫度多少？
環規直徑為多少？
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讓我們正視它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果機器的附近站立的1個人呼吸 真和明天5個人呼吸都能影響你的測量。

國際化

未完待續

, k7 h9 _, j  u" G6 w# |回國際化:估計老美沒有幾個人認識中文,啥時候幫他們也翻譯下,
+ u1 V: j; p: Z, b' Q% c吟嘯徐行 發表于 2009-3-15 17:43

我當然是用英語告訴他們這里是中國最好的機械論壇之一

吟嘯徐行

回國際化:我當然知道你是英文告訴他們這個論壇好,但是他們最多也就在這邊瞄一眼,機械社區的內容估計老外能看懂的不多

胡雷

辛苦版主  翻譯的東東很實用

吟嘯徐行

想知道國外三坐標有多少種軟件嗎？呵呵，這個估計是歐美比較常用的
http://www.prolinksoftware.com/product_calc_machine.aspx

吟嘯徐行

Renishaw styli tip cleaning for probe calibration
& c3 V1 B7 k3 O% H( }為探針校準,清潔Renishaw探針紅寶石球

2 k; F+ _* i, b0 U1 |* TObviously before probe calibration, the cal sphere and Styli should be clean and free from debree, which would effect the results of the calibration.
+ P! X, F+ W1 Q! p5 HWhen i first joined my company a simple wipe with the fingers or peice of rag had sufficed.
However I noticed while inpecting the styli under a microscope, the ruby styli was littered with debree such as small peices of aluminium, cast iron, small hairs etc.
& D4 H% c0 O  q& U! k( o2 C: YBecause of this I started to clean the styli and cal sphere with solvent based liquids such as Geneclean, SBP2 & currently Amberklene.
2 F; G+ y* P, e! E' {7 ~# RAny thoughts on my process, is a solvent likley to have a detremental effect on the ruby,any alternatives, what do you do at your company?  
9 a6 ^* O& e/ T  B; ]- M
- F$ F& q" P; J9 w顯然在探針校準前,標準球和探針應該被清潔，灰塵有可能導致校準結果的偏差。
當我剛加入公司的時候,只是簡單的用手或者碎布擦拭就可以了。
. I( b4 u! v/ J/ X但當我在顯微鏡下觀察探針時，紅寶石探針沾滿灰塵,例如微小的鋁屑,鑄鐵屑，頭發屑等等
以此我開始用液體溶劑清潔標探針和標準球,SBP2或Amberklene。
在我的理解中，溶劑有可能對紅寶石產生不良效果，有沒有其他選擇,你的公司怎么做的啊？  

* d; \; O/ q# ~+ Q# uI generally use a lens cleaning cloth or one of the cloths supplied for cleaning Gauge block sets, although I tend to keep the cloths bespoke for each use ( one for styli only etc ).  
我通常使用鏡頭清潔布或者量塊清潔布，盡管我傾向為每個提高一份清潔布。（為探針專門準備一個)
& O( t0 C4 M4 D
* Q# U, s/ N! {! H& e2 u8 [- fI use denatured alcohol & Kimwipes EX-L delicate task wipers (Kimberly Clark). FYI - They are made in Roswell
我使用工業酒精或者Kimwipes EX-L精致手帕紙. （Kimberly Clark） FYI －格魯吉亞制造。

. f% _" A0 p; B9 WUse alcahol and a lint-free cloth... (Renishaw Tech)
Do not use solvents such as acetone etc...
8 K  v6 o/ t8 i- q  R& r使用酒精和沒有棉絮的布。 （Renishaw 技術）
不要使用溶劑，例如丙酮等

liguangfei

嘎嘎，你就把這些對話打包好了哇，，，，